Interview with Wafa Srour

Can you please give us some general information about your life?

I am from Eilaboun,1 a small village in the north between Tiberias2 and Nazareth.3  A massacre took place in this village in 1948; sixteen people were killed and the others fled for their lives. Both my maternal uncle and my paternal uncle were among those killed. My father could have been among them, as well, yet he somehow survived. I was born in the same village and in the same house.

As you become an adult, you find that life presents you with various options. You can choose between two ways of living your life. The first way is to try to recover that which has been taken from you. For example, my father lost his brother. He was a newlywed at the time, but since then he has not been able to recuperate the lively spirit that he once had. The trials that he has survived made an enormous imprint on his psyche. Today, when I think about all that happened to him, I understand the extent to which these difficult experiences shaped his personality.

The first approach to life, therefore, is to take back that which one has been deprived of. The second approach is discipline.

I used to be a member of the Communist party,4 which called for two states for two peoples. I also worked with the women’s movement. My husband and I were living in Ramle5 when I heard about the Waha6 from the social studies teacher in the school where I used to study. They were having a meeting and invited me to come. At the meeting my teacher told me that I should come live in the Waha. I was an insurance agent at that time. My teacher told me that that line of work did not suit me, and that I should move here instead.

That is how we came to live here. I took a facilitation course at the School for Peace7 and then began working there. On the one hand, working at the School for Peace and dealing with peace issues in general is not easy.The conflict is still going on around you, and you are living in this village that tries to create a space for peace. On the other hand, it is exciting to feel that you might be able to achieve something; that you might be able to bring people together by offering something of yourself and sharing your ideas and goals. So, in some small way, I feel that I’m giving of myself and doing something that I believe in - and not only because of the encounters. Of course, the School for Peace sponsors encounters between Arabs and Jews, and its staff consists of both Arabs and Jews. Several organizations sponsor activities of this type, each one using its own method. Some sponsor meetings between individuals, and others sponsor meetings between universities or even nations. When I began working for the School for Peace, its approach was still not clear. Our way of working now is different. Back then, things were not very structured. Now, in contrast, our staff is much more organized. We are constantly working on improving our skills through dialogue and meetings.

We have developed a new method that we all agree is appropriate: sponsoring meetings between universities. Until this past year, I was a youth leader. As youth leaders, we used to ask students to put themselves in the position of the “other.” We would say, “try to feel that you are Palestinian or try to feel that you are Jewish.” But that is ridiculous! What does it mean to “try to feel”?

The point is not to bring youth together so that they can get to know each other and have fun. Our aim is to raise awareness. They can have fun later. Imagine that a Palestinian student comes out of a meeting and says, “Yeah I had a good time in there, but out here nothing has changed.” I would feel as if I had fooled him. This is something that I, as part of a nation that is suffering under the rule of another nation, cannot accept. As such, we have changed the methods that we use. We say that there is a state called Israel that forced out and oppressed the Palestinian people. As the Palestinian minority in Israel we also face oppression and the denial of our rights. The point is to get everything out on the table and to deal with it. I mentioned that I worked with the women’s movement in Elaboun. I also worked with the women’s movement during the two years in which I lived in Ramle, and also in Tel Aviv.8 When I came to the Waha, my identity as a woman was erased a bit. It was as if that part of my life that had been dedicated to activism in women’s issues was forgotten. I do not mean to say that I am not at all active and never participate in demonstrations and so forth. I am just not as active now as I used to be.

Not long after I began working on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict for the School for Peace, however, I began thinking more about women’s issues again. I asked myself, “where am I in this? What is the role of women?”. In addition, I observed the behavior of the women who attended our encounters or who came to the meetings at the universities. I noticed that women’s voices were not heard so much during the meetings; women tended to let the men speak. This reflects the reality in other facets of life as well, as usually the only ones at the podium giving speeches are men. We took note of this issue, and in an attempt to give women a chance to make their voices heard, we decided to organize meetings for women only. This does not mean that we are against men. We host these meetings in order to give support and encouragement to those women who believe that women should not be involved in politics, but rather that their proper role in life is to work in the kitchen, to tailor the clothes of the men in the army, and to give birth to boys who grow up to join the army. I disagree. I believe women should take more responsibility in life.

Nine years ago, we started a program with Tel Aviv University.9 The program is concerned with women’s identities from a range of perspectives. As uneducated women are usually marginalized in society, we decided to work with women who have a relatively high degree of opportunity. Our goals were both to help them develop self-confidence and to help them identify the constructive roles that they, as Israeli and Palestinian women, can play in the conflict.

Anyone who works with those women can see how determined and powerful they are; for many of them, the mere thought of getting dressed every Tuesday morning, leaving the kitchen, and going to the university was like a dream. Moreover, the women who have attended these meetings have come to discover that education is not only about listening to lectures, but also about sharing their ideas and engaging in debate. Boosting women’s confidence allows them to start thinking about finding an effective role for themselves in politics and about contributing to the shaping of their own ethnic identity. For example, gaining confidence allows them to think about refusing to send their children to the army. These are issues that women must examine in order to decide for themselves what role they play in the conflict and what roles they want to play. Women are beginning to see that they should refuse to be relegated to the margins. More of them are convinced that they can take an effective stance, even if they are yet to be free to act completely according to their own will.

Our work has brought us to a number of conclusions. For example, we have done some research interviewing Israeli and Palestinian women inside Israel. You know all of the fantasies about solidarity among women in the face of their shared oppression at the hands of men and the structures of society? We wanted to investigate this fantasy and examine its grounding in reality. We found that Palestinian women for the most part, do not feel a sense of sisterhood with Jewish women. In some of the interviews I conducted, when we talked about women’s issues, Palestinian women would say that they felt unity with Jewish women. When we started to talk about nationalist issues, however, it was a different story. From the perspective of the Palestinian woman, that other woman takes on the role of a man. That is, when a woman faces a conflict as massive as this one, her concerns go beyond feminist issues, alone. This is my own experience, as well. When I lived in Elaboun, for instance, I was deeply involved in women’s issues. As soon as I arrived here, however, I became more concerned with ethno-national identity. I’ve become so involved in preserving my identity in the face of the Israelis that I have almost forgotten about feminism. This leads us to question where, under these circumstances, feminism is to be found.

If I am going to work with Israeli women, I have a number of conditions. First of all, the Israeli women must agree with us on the nationalist question. I mean, I cannot imagine standing side-by-side with an Israeli woman in a demonstration against men at the same time that her government is threatening my husband. This is not an easy situation for Israeli women, who are figuring out whether there is a positive role for them to play, or whether they should just sit aside and watch. Now, more and more women are asking themselves where they want to be situated in the conflict. They are exploring what, exactly, they can do. This is our goal with these meetings, and this is what we are hearing from women when they talk about their lives. We never expect rapid change; for a person to change suddenly from X to Y. Our aim is to help women listen to stories about others’ experiences so that they can come to think critically about their own position in society.

In our encounters, the women generally first listen to a lecture. We then divide them into two groups; one Jewish and the other Arab. These groups give each woman a chance to speak in her own language about the ways in which she suffers in her own society. We then bring the Jewish and Arab women together to discuss the nationalist issue. It is at this point that the meetings tend to get hostile. I will always remember how these debates bring these women to raise their voices and even to scream. At times they cannot even hear each other speak. Once I asked them why they became so heated in these debates, and one woman replied that she felt as if she were speaking to a man and not to another woman.

Actually, the screaming results from the fact the women are surprised by what they hear. The Arab women are shocked because they see Jewish women oppressing them and their husbands, and now they hear that Jewish women also face oppression. The Jewish women are shocked, because they are accustomed to seeing themselves as being oppressed by their men, and now they hear themselves portrayed as the oppressors of Palestinian women. These surprises are powerful because they make the women question and reevaluate their social status.

After Oslo10 we started working with Palestinians in general and Palestinian women in particular. Our aim is not to be a political opposition, however. We respect the decisions taken by the Palestinian leadership and we understand if, after the breakdown of Oslo, they wish to boycott relations with Israelis. They have the right to refuse to communicate with people who are killing them.

We have been involved in convening meetings for Palestinians and developing programs concerned with the situation of Palestinian and Israeli women. We have also offered courses in facilitation. One of the School for Peace’s activities is organizing trainings that prepare facilitators to do work related to the Jewish-Palestinian conflict. We are also currently sponsoring a number of programs and encounters between Palestinian and Jewish women. Of course, Palestinian women from Israel participate in these activities, as well. I serve as an advisor for these meetings. For each group of sixteen to eighteen people there are usually two advisors, one Jewish and one Palestinian. If the group consists of Palestinian citizens of Israel, then the advisor will be a Palestinian citizen of Israel, as well. Likewise, the advisor for a group of Palestinians from the West Bank11 will be Palestinian, and the advisor for a group of Israelis will be Israeli. Unfortunately, one woman who was qualified to be an advisor refused to work in this field. As a result, I remained the only advisor for all of the groups. This made me wonder, will I be regarded as an Israeli, even though I am a Palestinian?12

One thing I have noticed during the meetings between Palestinian women from Israel and Palestinian women from Palestine is how open they are in sharing their thoughts with each other. These meetings are characterized by a calmness and forthrightness that is difficult to achieve in the Jewish-Arab meetings. This took me by surprise. It seems to me that, as Palestinian women from Israel, our position in society makes us stressed and nervous. Palestinian women from Palestine speak with amazing frankness about things that we, Palestinian citizens of Israel, do not dare to mention.

Let me explain to you how our meetings generally work. The meetings begin by the women introducing themselves as individuals. They then introduce their culture. During this part devoted to getting to know each other’s culture, I notice that groups of Palestinians from inside Israel tend to focus on the positive aspects of our community and not to discuss its negative aspects. The Jewish groups usually speak as if they dominate in the cultural realm, as if their culture is superior to that of the Palestinians. The tables then get turned when the topic of discussion switches to politics. When talking about politics, the Palestinian group becomes more powerful; the scream of the oppressed always makes itself heard. In this way, some sort of balance is achieved between the different groups. The Palestinians in the West Bank have more self-confidence then do the Palestinians living inside Israel. This is because, as a Palestinian citizen of Israel, you always feel that there is an Israeli around you, reminding you that he or she is better than you are, and that you are something less.

When the discussion revolves around politics, the Palestinians talk and talk and talk until the Jews find themselves in a very uncomfortable position. The Jewish women, feeling a need to change the atmosphere in the room, then request to switch the topic of discussion from politics to social issues. The Palestinians agree, and the discussion turns to societal concerns. Then Palestinians say that their society may be backward and may suffer from a number of problems, but unfortunately they cannot improve this situation as long as they are under occupation. They say that, if Israelis ended the occupation, perhaps Palestinian women would be able to focus on improving their conditions as women. This leaves the Jewish women in a state of shock, because they are trying to deny the fact that they are actually oppressing the Palestinians. I believe that such honesty and frankness is a vital part of developing consciousness. Concealing information does not serve awareness-raising. This is a critical point. After meeting with many different groups, furthermore, I have noticed that Palestinians from the West Bank are more open than are Palestinian women from Israel. In my opinion, this forthrightness is a very good thing.

When did you start working on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict?

After Oslo, I started working with Israeli Palestinian women.

You were telling me about the relation between Israeli Jews and Palestinian Israelis, which is one aspect of the conflict. How did you decide to work on tackling the conflict in general and not any other issue?

There are things that accompany your very development as a human being. I was born and raised on these political issues. When I left Elaboun, I did so out of a desire to leave such a politicized environment. I did not want to get involved in politics or in political parties anymore, but rather to work for an insurance agency. Clearly politics is a part of me, however, because I have chosen to work in this field even though I could have made much more money in insurance. I suppose that it is something that comes from deep inside my personality, and my worldview. This is something that I cannot change. I cannot sit and do nothing while we are at war. In this way, work in this field is an outlet for me. If I did not have it, I would suffocate.

If you were speaking with someone who did not know much about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, what would you tell him/her about your work and the contribution that it has to make? Do you think that your work promotes peace? If so, how?

If I were asked about my work, I would say that we are an occupied nation. No nation in the world would accept being occupied, so why should we? In order to affect change, we must try to influence people’s consciousness. Some might say that they are under Israel’s rule, so there is little that they can do. Although it might seem like they have no means of expressing their dissent, I believe that there are many things that can be done. I wish that the occupation could end without a single drop of blood. Unfortunately, that is not how the world works. Blood has been shed during the past fifty years of war and it continues to be shed today. For how much longer will things continue in this way? At times I wonder about the value of education, culture, universities, and the developed world, given that war continues to be war. It is really just unfathomable. You see what has been done to women in the Iraqi prisons.13 It seems like only barbarians would be capable of doing such things, but it was the “civilized” Americans who did it.

It is impossible to remain silent when you look around and see all of these things .You begin to think that maybe education is the key to making change. I believe that the only way to change a person is to raise his awareness. It was only when I became aware of the fact that I was being oppressed that I was able to start resisting it. The same thing applies to the struggle of women; the moment that I realized that I was not born weak, but rather that society had forced me into a weak position, I could start fighting for my rights. It is illogical for people to say that they would prefer to live under the rule of Israel than under that of an Arab regime, I denounce all oppression, whether it is carried out by Arabs or Jews. We did not agree with Saddam’s policies, even though he was an Arab leader. Nevertheless, this does not mean that I accept the American occupation of Iraq.14 Once we become aware that there are people living under occupation, we can work to end it. This is our work; it is centered on consciousness-raising. Change, however, will not be achieved easily or quickly. Ideas that are deeply ingrained - the ideas on which people have been raised -cannot be uprooted overnight. I wish that change could happen this quickly, but this is simply not the way things are.

I have also been working to promote awareness among Palestinians in Israel because this is a way of bringing about change among Jewish Israelis. Israel is able to do the things it does because we are too weak to stop it. The stronger we become, the less power they will have over us. If we gain power, Israel will not dare to continue with the practices that it carries out today. We work on making people aware of their rights so that they can stand up to those who claim to be democratic and humane, but whose practices are not.

What is your plan for future activities?

The School for Peace holds encounters at universities and has offered training courses at four universities, as well. Over time, we have become well known for the facilitation training that these courses provide. More and more, when the facilitators who take our courses go on to work in the field, people ask them where they obtained their training and they say “School for Peace”. This makes us feel that we are having an impact. We have also published a book that details the methodology that we use.15

In your opinion, is this a way of promoting peace?

Yes, it promotes peace - genuine peace. All Jewish Israelis, even racists, claim that they want peace. But what they actually mean by peace is that they continue to keep the Palestinians under occupation and the Palestinians say “OK”. Our view of peace is different. For us, peace is based upon equality: not you in a position of superiority and me in a position of inferiority. Even during Oslo, the feeling of superiority on the part of Jews was something unbelievable. How can that be considered to be peace? Peace will only be achieved when the two sides are treated as equals. That means that Israel has to give up its feeling of superiority. Only when both sides are equal, can each think of making concessions to the other. That is genuine peace.

What challenges do you encounter?

We face challenges on a daily basis, especially those of us who live in the Waha. It is not at all easy, and at times it can be exhausting. Sometimes I wonder why I came to live here. One challenge comes from the fact that we are undertaking a double mission; we are working to bring about change both within ourselves and within the other side: among the Jewish Israelis. The Israelis’ feeling of superiority comes through in everything, all the time. They have a sense that they have the power to control things because they were raised with the idea that they can have it all. So we have to make a two-part effort: we have to work on ourselves and also on them. This is no easy task. To be completely frank, I do not feel comfortable here. Peace does not come for free; I am paying the price. I want Israeli Jews to have to pay a price in order to achieve peace, as well. We, the Palestinians, have already paid more than enough.

It is a fact that it is the weaker party that must make requests of the stronger party. In our case, the powerful are the occupiers; they are the ones in a position to make compromises and to stop carrying out certain practices. Otherwise, we will end up in war. For instance, you cannot be a leftist and at the same time send your son to the army. It was my dream that the people who came to live here for the sake of peace would refuse to join the army. I still hope for peace, at least from the people who live here. What bothers me most is that Israelis do not refuse to join the army. They claim to hope for peace, yet they go off to war. How can this be? This is extremely painful for me. It makes me feel as small as a fly. And what hurts even more is the fact that they do not understand that this hurts us. It surprises me that I have lived with them for so long and they still do not know what hurts me. This is very hard.

The Jewish residents of the Waha think that they can live here, yet continue to be like Israeli Jews who live elsewhere. I believe that if you come and live with Arabs, then you are choosing to become a part of an Arab community. And in that case, there are compromises and sacrifices that you must make. You come from a state that has all the power, and you choose to come live with a minority that is not only weak and oppressed, but is oppressed by your own army. It is simply a contradiction for you to choose to live here, but at the same time to continue to partake in that oppressive power. They cannot say that, on the one hand, they want peace, and on the other hand, they want to make war against us. This is a contradiction that, in my opinion, is impossible to accept. Unfortunately, to this day the Waha is yet to set forth conditions for families that request to live here. The Waha has still not opened a dialogue on this issue. In my opinion, there are two main issues in this regard. The first issue is language. When you decide to live with another community, you need to know its members’ language in order to be able to interact with them and get to know their culture and background. Otherwise you do not show that you really care about them and care about coming to know who they are. The second issue is military service. In my opinion, families that want to live in the Waha should be in agreement on these two issues. First, they should agree to learn the language of the other community. Second, they should agree that their children will not go to fight in the army.

Do you think they should not join the army at all, or just that they should not serve in the West Bank and Gaza?

I think that, at the very least, they should not serve in the Territories. Defensive service would be OK. Some young men and women from the Waha have refused to serve in the army, but not all of them.16 This is a personal choice and a choice that I deeply respect. But I also think that the Waha should make it a rule, and not leave it up to the discretion of individual families. Any family that wants to come here should know that there are rules for living in this place; living here is not like living in any other village. They have to know that living with another community means joint-participation, and joint-participation means giving up certain things.

I cannot give up anything, because I have nothing left to give up. Everything has already been taken away from me. Today what I want is to reclaim what I have been deprived of: my language, my identity, etc. That is what I am working for today; to win back that which has been taken away. They, on the other hand, should give up the things with which they oppress me. Even some Jews who do not live in the Waha have asked me how families can live here and still send their children to serve in the army. So it is not only Arabs who find this strange. Many Jews I know have commented on this. They are leftists, of course, but there are many of them who think this way.

One can argue, however, that parents cannot tell their children how to think or behave; that, just because parents made a decision to live in the Waha does not mean that they can impose their views on their children.

That is Israeli democracy! Israelis are democratic when they want and not democratic when they do not want to be. I have heard this line so many times before: “I cannot stop my 18 year-old from doing what he or she wants.” My response is that, if this is the case, then that 18 year-old is old enough to make his own decision about whether he wants to continue living in the Waha or to live independently elsewhere. Are they not claiming that an 18 year old is independent and free? If so, then that 18 year-old can lock himself in his room and think hard about whether or not he wants to live in the Waha, regardless of the beliefs of his parents. He can say “OK, with all due respect to my family, I choose to go in another direction”. If the young man is free, he has to think things over and make this decision.

I was at a conference for women last year, and we were talking about this issue of military service. One woman said to me, “Do you know how much the community shunned my daughter because she refused to serve in the army?” This woman lives on a kibbutz,17 and people who live in a kibbutz are generally leftists. I responded, “How strange! You claim that individuals have the freedom to do what they want, but when one refuses to serve in the army, he is no longer free!” You see, when they want to be free, they are free, and when they do not want to be free, they are not. And I heard this at a feminist conference! This girl is not free to make her own ethical decision not to go to the army? How can they criticize Arabs for being backward and lacking individual freedom? Where is their individual freedom? The security situation puts an end to individual freedom? I simply do not buy all this Israeli propaganda about freedom and democracy.

Did you ever doubt that you were on the right track?

I do not feel that the way I live is wrong. But it takes a long time for a person to change. We need to be stronger. The Arabs in the Waha are not strong enough. This seems to be the dynamic among most minority groups; they must unite as a group, and not simply act as individuals, if they are to determine their collective needs. We do not do this as much as we must, and in this we are not different from Palestinians who live outside the Waha. Everyone is fighting for his own needs. It is a misconception when Jews refer to “the Arabs” as if they were a single group facing off against the Jews. The Arab states do not even stand by each other. It is similarly incorrect when people all over the world refer to “the Islamic nation”. I am not saying that I am ready to sacrifice my own individuality in order to be part of a group. What I’m saying is that we need a political transformation. We need a clear political vision that will offer us a basis on which to work.

Did your involvement in this field come as a surprise to you, to your community, or the people who have know you since the time you were involved in other parties in Elaboun?

No, because the Communist Party is considered a Jewish-Arab party. I would say that my involvement in this field is consistent with my character. I have always worked in the same direction. I did work for a while as an insurance agent, but I discovered that this profession simply was not right for me.

Did your involvement affect your relationship with your family?

No, not at all. Many people think that we Arabs are tribal, and that we all think in the same way. If you look at the people who live in Neve Shalom/Wahat al-Salam, however, you find that this is true among the Jews more than among the Arabs. For example, when they asked me what my family thought of our moving here, I looked at my husband with surprise. I thought, “What does my family have to do with where I choose to live?!” For the Jewish residents, however, things are different. They asked their families for their opinion, and many of their families objected. Often there was some conflict between them and their families and friends. Most of the Jews who have come to live here undergo some sort of change. I do not want to say that they do not change at all, but still it is insufficient for me. I still hope to see even more profound change. Nevertheless, the points of view of the Jews who live here differ from those who live elsewhere. This sometimes causes problems between them. Fortunately, I do not think that we face problems of this sort.

Is it unusual for someone from where you come from to be involved in this type of work?

The truth is that people in Eilaboun are not usually involved in this kind of work. I don’t know for sure, but in general it is not very common. I do know of two women who married men from outside Elaboun, who worked with “Adam”18 and other organizations in that field. I am not really in favor of such organizations, however.

Why not?

Did you feel your sense of belonging change?

My sense of belonging has been strengthened. Some people think that living among Israeli Jews would have an effect on my identity as a Palestinian. It is true that it has, but the effect has been to make my identity stronger. For example, sometimes people ask me what my daughters’ names are, and they are surprised when they hear that their names are Rasha and Ahlam. They imagine that, because I live with Jews, my children’s names would not be Arabic. Today my sense of identity is clearer. Today, I can challenge Jews more boldly. In this sense, the meetings that we organize have helped put the picture in focus for me. The encounters are very important because meeting Israeli Jews - seeing them as they really are rather than holding on to the image that we have always been told about them - helps us to come to know ourselves, as well.

When people ask me why I bring students to meet each other, I tell them that my own experience participating in such encounters has strengthened my sense of identity. Palestinian students grow up hearing that Israeli students are stronger, better, and smarter than they are. When they meet Israeli students, however, they discover that they are not as they are portrayed in books and so on. When I came face-to-face with real Israelis, it caused me to reflect upon myself. I care about Palestinian students. In my opinion, the more aware they are the better.

How has the Israeli- Palestinian conflict influenced your life?

At times, I envy the lives of people in other parts of the world. We, on the other hand, go to sleep and wake up to politics. We eat and breathe politics. Politics plays too large a role in our lives; even in our homes, we are never free of politics. For example, when I came back from a demonstration at the checkpoint in Rafah19 on Friday, my child asked me if I asked the soldier if he would like to be to be treated the way that he treats us. I was in shock. My little baby, what does she know about all of this? I told her that I did, so she asked, “Why didn’t they listen to you then?” I said, “Because we’re weak.” She stared at me in silence; there was nothing else that she could do. There are times when I think that all of this is just too much. Sometimes I feel that I cannot be truly happy about anything. It is like a happy bride who is excitedly putting on her wedding gown and gold jewelry, but then all of a sudden becomes unhappy because she realizes that she is going to become an object possessed by a man.

The most difficult things in life are decisions. You try to make the right choice, but it is not easy. For example, we had to choose which school would be best for our children. Here in the Waha there is a Jewish-Arab elementary school. I had to decide whether to let my children attend this school or take them back to Ramle. It was no easy choice. It is so hard when my children ask why they do not attend the school here, since this is where we live. Sometimes I don’t know how to answer them. The school here is supposed to be bi-national and bilingual, but in reality it is not. So I do not want my girls to be there. There is a huge gap between what they claim this school to be and what it actually is. How can I let my little girl fall into that trap? I want her to learn proper Arabic. I want her to study in Arabic.

Why have you decided to raise your daughters in a bi-national atmosphere, yet send them to a uni-national school?

Living in the Waha is something of an experiment for us, which means we try many different things and give up those things that do not work. In my opinion, the Waha’s attempt at creating an Arab-Jewish school have not succeeded. If you look at schools in Canada or the United States, you see that they can take a variety of forms or employ a range of methodologies. The question of how to design a bi-national, bilingual school requires more thought, and it is something that we can continue to work on. We need first to attend to the issue of a bi-national school, and then perhaps to the issue of an interfaith school. Here in the Waha, we asked for a bi-national school that does not deal at all with religion. We wanted to put the religious issue aside. The Jewish residents objected, however, because for them religion is part of their national identity. In the end, what we have here seems to be a typical Jewish school, with some Arabs added in. If we want a genuinely Arab-Jewish school, on the other hand, we must create it from scratch. It must be Arab-Jewish from its very foundations and basic principles.

I cannot put my daughter in the school here, where her Jewish teacher does not even know Arabic. It is not enough to have a Jewish teacher reading from an Arabic book. This confuses the children. There should be a Jewish teacher and an Arab teacher, or at least a Jewish teacher who speaks Arabic. Otherwise, attending this school would be at the expense of our language and our nationality, something which is totally unacceptable for me. So, I can say “OK, we tried.” We need to look back on this experience and see what worked and what did not in order to continue forward on the right track. I have made the choice to live here, but I cannot allow this choice to be at my daughters’ expense.

How are your daughters affected by this moving from one environment at home to another environment at school?

Frankly, they are much more comfortable now. Having Arab friends and being in an Arab atmosphere puts them at ease. It is absolutely clear that that environment is better for them, psychologically-speaking. My older daughter was in the school here until the third grade. When one of her Jewish classmates had a birthday party, she and another child would be the only Arabs there. She had Jewish friends but practically no Arab friends. This made her think that Arabs were not good enough to be her friends and that it was easier to get along with Jews than with Arabs. Where is the equality in that? Again, we see this notion of Jewish superiority. The fact is that the Jewish community here is well-off and elite, and the Arabs from Lod,20 Ramle, and Abu Ghosh21 belong to a completely different social class. From this, they extract the idea that Arabs are uncultured and Jews are superior. Did I come here in order for my daughter to grow up with this mentality? These are questions that I ask myself everyday. Every single day I ask myself whether or not I should continue to live here. In general, living in this country is difficult. It is very difficult.

What do you think is the greatest price that you’ve paid or the greatest sacrifice that you’ve made for the sake of your work?

I don’t think that I have really given up anything. Perhaps I have gained more than I have sacrificed. For example, when we used to live in Ramle, I never dared to speak about my opinions and feelings in front of Jews. That is the honest truth. Here, on the other hand, I have more freedom. It does not matter whether they are with me or against me; at least I can speak my mind. Here I feel the security to say what I want, regardless of whether my Jewish colleague agrees with me or not. In this sense, I don’t feel that I have given up anything, and on the contrary, I feel that I’ve gained the opportunity to speak freely. This is different from outside the Waha.

What do you see as successes in your work?

Today the number of Israelis that refuse to join the army is increasing. I think that if these families were living outside the Waha, they would not think of refusing in this way. Unfortunately, I am someone who always sees the glass as half full. This is exhausting, and maybe it is a flaw. But it also pushes me to work to make things better. I see the daughter of my colleague Michal getting her draft notice from the army. She is in 11th grade, and she is now working hard to form a committee of people interested in refusing military service. This gives me assurance. It gives me the feeling that at least some people stand by us.

Did you meet people through this work whom you would not otherwise have met?

In the outside world, you can avoid people if you want to. If there is someone with whom you don’t want to speak, you don’t have to. Here, on the other hand, we do not have that option because we have decisions to make. Some of the decisions that we have had to make have been extremely difficult. There are 50 people living here, and everyone knows each other. When you make a decision, you should do so on the basis of reason, not emotion. Sometimes people expect that, because I am a woman, my decisions will be more influenced by emotions. When I make a decision, however, I am able to separate my mind from my heart. For me, making decisions on the basis of reason is a matter of principle.

For example, some five years ago, a young man from the Waha was killed in a helicopter that crashed on its way to Lebanon.22 This was one of the most difficult moments of my life. It was one of these moments in which you have to separate between reason and emotions. On the one hand, he was just 20 years old. You can imagine how painful it was. On the other hand, he was on his way to fight. For me, the most difficult thing about the incident was that it came as a complete surprise, because I had not realized that men here joined the army in order to participate in combat. I knew there were some who joined the army, but I never imagined they would become fighters. I felt deceived and betrayed. These are the worst feelings to have. It was just too much to bear.

People here wanted to build a monument to the young man in the playground of the village. The idea of a monument was extremely painful for me. I felt like I was being strangled. It was not a cultural issue, but a nationalist one. It hurt me as a matter of national and political identity. In the end, the monument was built even though 80 percent of the Arabs were against it.

Now we have to be reminded of all of this each time we look at this monument. Why should my children and I be deprived of enjoying this playground? The problem is that the young man’s parents still do not understand why this is painful for me. They do not understand where my pain is coming from. For them, this was simply their son. I have compassion for them and I cried, too. But I have feelings, as well. I feel for my father and for my aunt in Lebanon. I cannot forget them, either. This whole incident was terrible, and I hope that I never have to face such a situation again. That is why I believe that they [Israeli Jews from NSWS] should not go to the army. The betrayal is too difficult to bear. If you are 18 years old, you have enough awareness to understand the situation. You can choose to go and fight, but if you do so then you cannot live here. It is a contradiction to live here and also to participate in war. The two things cannot go together. Why should we be forced to tolerate such a contradiction?

What are the most important lessons that you have learned?

If I am weak, then I will not achieve a thing. I must become more powerful in order to make change. This is not a lesson, as much as it is a given. I cannot expect a tyrant and an occupier to act humanely all of a sudden: to apologize and ask to make amends. I wish it were that easy, but it’s not. So the lesson we learn is that we must increase our own strength. It is similar to marriage; men will never understand women’s concerns unless women reveal them. This can be difficult and even excruciating, but this is the way things are.

What do you strive to achieve for your country and your people?

I want them to be able to enjoy their own humanity; to live with freedom and equality, to be human beings with a state. When I say that we want equality as a minority, I do not mean that we also get to join the army. This is not what equality is about. I mean that, as a minority, we should be respected. Our feelings of inferiority before Jewish Israelis has reached unbelievable proportions. Our lack of confidence in our own identity is dreadful. Our schoolbooks have always taught us that Jews are more educated and enlightened, and that Arabs are backward. I want my people to feel respect; not to feel looked down upon or to be seen as inferior.

Can you elaborate?

According to the Israeli Ministry of Education, the educational goals set forth for Arabs are different than those set forth for Jews. For Jews, the goals include strengthening identity and taking pride in nationality, language and culture, and so forth. For Arabs, on the other hand, the goals include increasing tolerance, loving peace, and things of that nature. What peace am I supposed to love if I am always afraid for my life? They raise us to be forgiving and compromising, but not to discover our identities, language, and history. Why can’t I learn about the history of 1948? Isn’t it my right to learn about what happened to my family in 1948? Isn’t it my daughter’s right to learn her own history? Why do I have to learn about other nations’ histories but not about my own? It is forbidden to talk about 1948 here, even at the university-level. Once when I was a student in university, I had a professor who gave a lecture that simply glossed over the events of 1948. I asked him why, and he explained that it would take a lot of time and many lectures in order to cover it fully. I said, “OK, so give it another lecture. Give it an entire course. What is the problem with that?” Even in the so-called liberal academy, they do seek to avoid talking about the crimes that they committed.

My father lived through 1948; I need to know what happened in order to be able to understand him and deal with him. I need to know what happened in order to know myself. Why do they keep that information from us? I need to know the truth in order to build my own identity. When we talk to Israeli Jews about this they say, “Why do you always focus on the past? Let’s start from now and look forward.” But if they don’t think the past is important, then why do they keep teaching their children about the Holocaust?23 Why can they teach the history of the Holocaust, when Arabs cannot teach their children about 1948? I studied about the Holocaust in school, but I was not taught about the things that my own father went through. Where is the equality and justice in this? In school we also had to celebrate Israeli Independence Day.24

What is it that I am supposed to be celebrating? That you took my land? Where is the logic in this? How is an Arab child supposed to develop his identity when he has to wave the Israeli flag? Independence Day is a day off from school and work. I remember that my school would be decorated with Israeli flags and we had to sing Israeli songs. We had to celebrate it as if we were Jews. It was forbidden to tear the Israeli flag, of course, and we were afraid to speak up and express ourselves. There was no freedom of speech; they would not talk about why we might have the desire to tear up the flag. All of these feelings were covered up, suppressed, silenced.

What is needed in order to achieve that which you strive to achieve?

We need a leadership with awareness in order to rouse up the nation and win back our rights. I do not expect the entire nation to be aware, but leaders must be. Sometimes I wonder where our leadership is taking us. We need the Palestinian leadership to put forward clear steps - one, two, three, four - to show the people what needs to be done. What we have today, however, are political leaders who care only about maintaining their own positions. That is why I prefer not even to get into discussions with them. Ask them what they have done during their past ten years in office, and they brag about the roads that they have paved. But what have we gained from that? We want them to help educate our people and make our youth more aware of their needs and rights. Today there is no such awareness, and this is a great misfortune. I look at young people today, and I pity them. There are times at our meetings when I feel a great distance from them. They are not accustomed to discussing who they are; at school they do not discuss such issues because the government has no interest in raising the subject of identity. In the Jewish schools, in contrast, such discussions happen freely. They discuss their feelings, their history with the Germans, and so forth. But it is forbidden for us to talk about what the Jews have done to us. This is why I expect leadership to play a role in teaching the people about their identity. Education has an important place, but leaders must play a role, as well. Yet these days I just do not trust what the leadership is doing.

Is there any hope?

The question is not if there is any hope, but rather, how much longer will people suffer under occupation? How many more people will fall victim? How many more children will be killed? I have hope, because things cannot remain the way they are. History has shown that no occupation can continue forever. If I did not have hope, I would not be here today. I also gain some hope from the fact that people are becoming more and more educated.

What does the word “peace” mean for you?

Sometimes I do not like this word at all, because we always learned that peace means making concessions, being patient, and so forth. In this sense, I might even prefer if “School for Peace“ had a different name. Some people might be surprised that I am from Neve Shalom/Wahat al-Salam and think this way. They only think of peace in their own terms and according to their own understanding. If living here means that I must accept what they mean by peace, however, then I do not want to be here and I reject the name Neve Shalom/Wahat al-Salam. Peace is a beautiful word, but it is a difficult road, filled with thorns and obstacles. For that reason, it scares me sometimes.

Do you think peace will be achieved during your lifetime?

No, I believe that it will still be some time before peace is achieved.

What do you think the situation will be like ten years from now?

The coming ten years are going to be difficult ones. Even if the occupation ends, the years ahead will be hard. The occupation must end sooner or later, but then we will be left to deal with the internal conflict. There might even be some sort of civil war. It is often the case that war ends and in the aftermath civil war occurs. In this sense, I can see the stages that await us: first civil war and then a period of getting things in order to build our independent state. The Palestinian people have already paid such a high price, yet we still have much more to pay. I know that we have a long road ahead of us. Nevertheless, I still have hope.

Which international community has the greatest influence on the region, and what would you like to say to it?

I am not sure that I want to tell them anything. It is strange how the entire world becomes blind when it turns its eyes towards the Palestinians. It is ironic how the world claims to reject occupation, yet silently watches as we are shattered and oppressed. I want these people to remove their masks and show their true faces. These countries care only about power and control, be it internal or external. Unfortunately, America, the “mother of peace” is not doing a thing. Neither are the Europeans, although I expected more from them.

Today countries around the world donate money to fund our peace organizations. There are times when I want to tell them to stop, and instead to use their money to build factories that will provide Palestinians with jobs. How can I expect a man to be good to his wife when he does not have a job and cannot feed his children? How is he supposed to be able to live? A starving nation will not be capable of achieving anything. We need to build schools and educate our people. First and foremost, however, our people need food to eat, because it is only then that they will be able to think about other things. A starving nation will think only about aggression. I want Palestinians to work in their own state and not in Israel, so we need to build more factories. It makes me so sad to watch Palestinian laborers working inside Israel. It breaks my heart, even though I know that they must do this in order to earn a living.25 I want to eliminate the stereotype that Palestinians are capable only of manual labor. My goal is to for Palestinians to be proud of their identity, culture, and homeland. I want them to live with dignity.

Is there any misconception of the conflict among the international community?

A friend of mine living in the U.S has a Jewish friend who once asked her, “How can we Jews deserve pity after all the harm that we have caused the Palestinians?” This is how distorted the pictures in the media are over there. They portray Jews as the only victims. It is as if we have hired the worst of lawyers to represent the most just of causes. The entire world is watching us as we are oppressed, destroyed, and starving. The world watches without taking action. They keep saying that the Jews are surrounded by Arab countries, but what is wrong with that? Today, the term “Arab world” is used interchangeably with ”Islam”, and the world fears Islam as if it were some terrible monster. In my opinion the only real monster is Bush. There is a monster named Bush, and he happens to be Christian.

Jews can sometimes be very simplistic. I don’t know if it is accurate to say that they are naive, or if it is just the case that it is easier for them to simplify matters. I just want to ask them: how did you come to make Islam the great criminal of the word? What about the Americans and what they did in Hiroshima and Nagasaki?26 Or was it Muslims who created nuclear weapons? I grant that Arab society has many problems and we need to work on them. But that does not make us the criminals of the world. There is no comparison between the damage that has been done by the Islamic and Arab worlds and that which others have done, or even what is happening now, right here in this country; what Israel is doing to the Palestinians. People have a way of twisting and inverting things. Either they are fools or they are making fools of us. I imagine that the latter is the case, because these people are thinking only about interests.

What misconceptions do people have regarding the work that you do?

When I first came here and people asked me about my work or about where I lived, I would immediately jump to explain that we are not another one of those peace organizations that just wants peaceful relations, co-existence, and other such delusions. I was very worried about the misconceptions they might have of our work. I am not so worried anymore, because we have become better known. Even among Palestinian organizations, the School for Peace has a reputation for being radical and revolutionary. Our methodology is well-recognized, and it follows the teachings of Freire,27 Helms,28 and others. It mirrors methods used to help blacks and whites deal with each other, develop their identities, and so forth. I have no doubts about my work, and I feel no shame when I mention the name “School for Peace.”

Does fear play a role in the Israeli Palestinian conflict? Are the fears of the two peoples, Palestinians and Israelis, similar?

I am not sure that our fears are equal. The fear that we Palestinians have is clear: the fear of being transferred. In this sense, I am afraid of something real. Their fears, on the other hand, are imaginary. I wonder what it is that Israelis fear, given that they have all the power in their hands. They “easily” came to this land and took advantage of the “simple” people who opened their hearts and homes. They just came in and took over. There are times when I feel like telling them that they are afraid of their own consciences for what they have done, or they are afraid of the possibility that one day they will be treated in the same cruel manner in which they have treated us. That is why I advise them not to treat us cruelly.

You said that Palestinians’ fears are real whereas Jews’ fear are imaginary. How do you respond to the claim that their fears are based on the Holocaust and Jewish history?

What Jews have experienced is a horrific calamity. There is no doubt about this. But this catastrophe was carried out by the West, by the colonizers, and by Christians. I understand that this has given rise to their fears. When they came here, however, they took over land that belonged to a peaceful people; otherwise it would not have been so easy to take. Looking back on the history of nations, you find that it was the West - you can even say the Christians - who carried out the catastrophes of the world. As I said before, it was the Americans who dropped the nuclear bomb on Japan.

Jews cannot put another nation through what they have gone through, even if they are doing so out of fear. I do not want to live in fear just because they have fears. Today I live in fear every day; I don’t know if one day they will kick me out. Now they say that the intifada is scaring them, but where did the intifada come from? They are the ones who caused it. Our people were not born launching intifadas. We were neither born throwing stones nor do we want to throw stones. This is a deprived nation that only wants independence and the minimum requirements for a decent life. This is something that we must be allowed, but we are not. Consequently, the people react. The Israelis are the ones with power. I say that only the weak should be afraid, so why are they afraid? They have power, and they also have America standing by them. They have weapons, perhaps even nuclear weapons. So what are they afraid of? America did not want the Iraqis in Kuwait, so they got them out.29 Now America does not want the Syrians in Lebanon, so they are working to get them out, as well.30 So why don’t they get Israel out?

What are they afraid of? They can wipe us out with a single bomb, so what are they afraid of? We are the helpless ones with stones. It is those that have no weapons with which to fight who go and blow themselves up. We have reached the point at which our struggle has become blowing ourselves up. I do not know of any other people that would do this. This only happens after you have gone through complete hell, only when you have no other options. Palestinians do not have guns, but the Israelis do. Israel has airplanes and weapons, and they used them to destroy the Jenin Refugee Camp for example.31 We are not the ones with that capacity. Israel can go to Lebanon, destroy what they want, and return back again. Not us. So who should be afraid of whom? Must I continue to live this way because of what the German Nazis did to them? These days people should have enough awareness to correct their behavior. If they do not, then this situation will go on and on. No nation accepts to remain under occupation.

I understand that they are afraid. I am also afraid of them, but I am dealing with it by living in Wahat al-Salam. The way they deal with their fear is by fighting. But war leads only to more war, and fear leads only to more fear. You can seek a peaceful solution or a military one. There is no power balance here. There is a powerful party and a weak party, and it cannot remain like this. There should be equality: two states for two peoples. We cannot give them more than that. We have already accepted their existence, and now it is time to allow the Palestinian people to have a state. It is always the powerful side that must come up with a solution, not the weak side. Of course, the solution must be one that the weak will accept. I do not want to deny or belittle their fears. On the contrary, I stand with them. I have taken part in demonstrations against the Nazis and joined in activities against Nazism in the Red Forest. I simply believe that they should not build their lives on the basis of that trauma. They should be able to cope with it in a way that does not cause harm to others, no less create a catastrophe for others.

What do you think is the root of the Israeli Palestinian conflict?

The struggle began as a struggle over land. Israel came and occupied us without caring about the killing, and destruction it caused or the expulsion of the people who were already living here. For example, when we were at the checkpoint32 in Rafah the other day, the soldiers told us in the simplest and most direct of words: “Go live in other Arab countries.“ They said it as if it were nothing, without stopping to think about the kind of effect this would have on us. They say whatever they want, and you just have to deal with it. The truth is that I am sometimes afraid that what happened in the year 194833 will happen again. My father died two years ago, but when he lived through the October War,34 he felt like the year 1948 was being repeated. Imagine: An 82-year-old man afraid that he would be expelled for the second time in his life. This is how we live. Sharon35 is killing us one after the other; you don’t know when your turn will come. The cause of the conflict was the fact that they came to our land in the first place. When you are attacked in your house, it is called “struggle.” It is not we who traveled to another country in order to fight. We were kicked out of our houses in our own land. Sometimes when I engage in discussions with Jews I ask them, “what if I attacked you and seized a room in your house? How would you feel?” There is conflict because our identities have been attacked. These experiences have shaped our sense of self. For this reason, even if there is a Palestinian state, it will take a long time for us to reconstruct what has been destroyed. It will take many generations in order to rebuild.

How do you keep the percentage balanced between the Israelis and the Palestinians in Neve Shalom-Wahat al-Salam?

The idea originated with a monk named Bruno Hussar.36 I think he may have been a Jew who converted to Christianity. His first idea was to found a village for people of different religions, but not many people were interested. Then he came to appreciate that this was a nationalist conflict between Jews and Arabs, and not a conflict based on religion. After that, more people began to show their interest. He met with someone in Canada or the U.S. who liked the idea, and was then offered the land by the Latrun convent.

Today the village has a special committee dedicated to keeping a numerical balance between members of the two communities. As such, not every family that wants to come and live here can do so. Although the two sides are equal in number, they differ in power. We accept all Arabs regardless of their religion; our concern is having representation of the two national identities. No distinction is made on the basis of religion. For example, I do not want special treatment because I am a Christian Arab, and here I am not treated any differently. The same thing goes for the Druze.37 They told the Druze that if they came and lived here that they would be protected. But then during the October events,38 a Druze man was beaten.

The Jews claim that they treat Christians differently, but this is just another lie. They claim that Christians are sophisticated and elegant. Today, many Jews ask me how I am able to live in the Islamic world. Elaboun is a Christian village, and our Christian villagers were expelled and scattered in 1948. These villagers were peaceful, yet 17 were killed.39 My mother was in her ninth month of pregnancy at that time, and she had to walk all the way to Lebanon. So where is the special treatment for Christians? Unfortunately, some Christians fall for the lie that they are different. Untruths such as this cause many problems, and they must stop. Israel is dealing with an Arab people, and it does not matter one bit what their religion is. I do what I do in order to put an end to all of these lies.

When were you told directly that you are different as a Christian?

All the time. The moment a Jew finds out that I am Christian, he immediately makes it clear to me that I am different. Sometimes, if he feels that I am raising my voice too much or being too nationalistic, he might tell me that I am behaving like a Muslim. I prefer not to make things more complicated by bringing in the issue of religion. Creating a space for people of the two national communities is difficult enough. As far as I’m concerned, a person’s religion or level of religiosity does not matter; I don’t care if a person is, Muslim, Christian or Jewish.

End.