Interview with Sami Al Jundi

Can you give us a brief personal background and describe how you got to be involved in your work?

My name is Sami Al Jundi. I was born in 1962 in Jerusalem1 in the Sharaf neighborhood which was called the Jewish Quarter after 1967.2 I wasn’t born at a hospital, but at home on a cold February day. Our home was warm because there were many people in it. It is said that the warmest part of the house is the kitchen; therefore I was born in the kitchen. I lived in that same house until 1967. During the 1967 War3 all the Arab inhabitants of the neighborhood were evacuated. Our family moved to the Arab Blind Association4 where my father used to work. Using two wardrobes, we divided the main hall of the Association in half, and my family and another shared that hall for three months. After three months we found a house in the Saadia neighborhood, near the Zahre Gate.5 My family still lives in that house. I went to kindergarten at the age of five when we still lived in the Sharaf neighborhood, the kindergarten was in the Christian Quarter. I moved to the Aumaria School6 at the age of seven in 1969 and then moved to the Qadisia School7 from fifth grade until sixth grade. After that I studied at the Khalil Al Sakakini8 and the Abdullah Ibn Al Hussein schools.9

After finishing school I continued my education in prison. This situation continued from 1980 to 1990. I was imprisoned for being a member of the movement Fatah10 My arrest was political.11 After 1990 I worked as a liaison for the Palestinian Teachers Union in the Occupied Territories.12 From 1993 to 1996 I worked with the Palestinian Center for the Study of Non-violence.13 During that period I learned many things about nonviolent activity and I obtained important experience about planning and organizing meetings against domestic, political, social and intellectual violence. We organized meetings and activities that aimed to raise awareness about all kinds of violence in the community.

During that period we held many joint activities with the Israeli side. That was the first time I met Israelis as a representative of the Palestinians side. It was during that period that I started doing joint work and started to believe that this work could help the region and the people achieve better living conditions, regardless of their religion or nationality. During that period I started to believe that non-violence is a more effective and civilized way for the Palestinians to achieve their rights than violent ways.

In 1995, at the time of my work with the Non-Violence Center, I, in association with other Palestinians, held joint meetings with Israelis. During these meetings we discussed ways of helping children, because children are the future. We used to hold these meetings in restaurants, hotels and private homes. The goal of the meetings was to discuss the foundation of an NGO or an organization for Israeli and Palestinian children’s affairs in Jerusalem. There are many children on the street with nothing to do. This causes them to get involved in negative acts, which in turn causes social problems within the community. Cooperation between Israelis and Palestinians at an early age will create better conditions for everyone in the future and help build bridges between the two sides. Palestinians from different areas of the West Bank attended these meetings, and they lasted for two years.

In 1996, during one of these meetings, I met Ned,14 my friend and colleague, who presented me with the idea of Seeds of Peace.15 Ned invited me to be part of a larger project that held meetings not only limited to Jerusalem, but meetings which were attended by people from Palestine, Jordan, Egypt and Israel. This was something I hadn’t even dreamed of. It was a surprise that changed the course of my life. The work with large groups on a large scale was the realization of a dream for me. We started our activities in Seeds of Peace in a tiny room in Rehavia16 in West Jerusalem. We continued our activities in different and cooperative ways with the children themselves. We met and planned activities with the children. We held meetings in Israeli and Palestinian schools.

The aim of these meetings was to provide the children with the opportunity to tell their friends about how they felt and thought about the conflict, the future, and the “other side” before and after meeting the people from the other side. The meetings aimed to widen children’s depth of thinking and to help them serve as a connecting link between children in Israeli and Palestinian schools. There were many meetings in schools in Israeli and Palestinian cities. In 1999 the Center17 was created as a result of diligent work. The people who work in the Center now learned many things from Ned and me, and later from people who attended the summer camp in America who came here to help us. They were very positive and active in the field of joint activities.

How do you describe your activities to those who know nothing about Seeds of Peace?

Our activities are primarily based on building bridges of trust between the Israeli and Palestinian sides, and between Islam, Judaism, Christianity and the Druze18 population. Our activities aim to provide each side with the opportunity to reflect upon its human and civilized side, a side that isn’t seen on TV or in the media generally. In the media the Palestinians are presented as terrorists and the Israelis as occupiers, soldiers and settlers. The world sees what the media presents, not the human side of the Palestinians; therefore it is the duty of the Palestinian kids that are part of the Palestinian delegation to present the human side that isn’t shown by the media. The world should know that Palestinian children are humans with feelings, hopes and dreams. The Israeli side also uses the opportunity to present the civilized side of Israeli society, which isn’t represented by the media.

Another aim of the activities is to provide the children with the opportunity to meet real leaders worldwide. The fact that these leaders were once children like them shows that they can reach influential positions in the future from which they can make decisions about solving the conflict or any other problem. It is important to provide children with this experience so they can become leaders within their communities. We provide the children with educational sessions with experts in conflict resolution. We emphasize the role of youth; which we feel is almost totally neglected in this conflict . The only role youth have in the conflict is violent --far from the civilized role they should play. We provide the youth with choices other than those that were available to them before.

Do the activities happen at the Center?

We hold meetings in schools, which is very important because the meetings widen the range of knowledge about the other side. We give the children the opportunity to meet children of the same age from the other side and to hear their opinions and views about the core issues of the conflict. Before the children speak in schools, they must gain experience. They participate in dialogue meetings. Up to seven months ago we had 12 groups that participated in dialogue meetings. These groups discuss current and past events among themselves.

Discussions between the Israeli and Palestinian children can be very pointed and charged. All these discussions fall under the title of dialogue and listening to the other side. Everyone is prepared to listen to the other side and everybody has the opportunity to speak their mind regardless of their political views. The important thing is that they express their opinions and benefit from hearing the opinions of others. After they participate in the meetings the children return to their schools, meet other children at school and talk about their views on the conflict before and after the meetings, about their dreams for the future and their opinions about what life will look like in the future.

Other activities are workshops about the use of media, human rights and the culture and customs of the other side. We organize visits to the homes of people from the other side in order to learn about their culture. During these visits a lot of people discover that in many cases they act very much like the people from the other side because we are all humans. During these activities each side gets to know the religion of the other side. The Muslims and Jews get to know Christianity and the Christians get to know Islam and Judaism and how people behave in their religious festivals and so on.

We also hold open house events for parents. Palestinian and Israeli parents come to the Center and meet the parents of the children with whom their children meet. We organize workshops and dialogue meetings for the parents themselves. The Palestinian and Israeli parents meet and discuss their political views. We give them the opportunity to experience what their children feel when they participate in this kind of activity. When conditions allowed for it, we held workshops for Israelis and Palestinians in Jordan and Egypt.19 They met and performed activities in Jordanian and Egyptian schools, and the Egyptians and Jordanians came to Israel or Palestine and performed activities with the Israelis and Palestinians. During these activities the Israelis and Palestinians used to sleep in Jordanian and Egyptian homes and vice versa.

We organized a big workshop at the Center for Israelis and Palestinians and American activists. The aim was to make the local activists feel that they aren’t alone in the world; that many people share their feelings and dreams about a non-violent way. We also had a big workshop in Cyprus.20The Center opened in 1999, but because the participants in our activities come from all across Palestine and Israel we use different places to hold meetings and activities.

We had a media activity during which the children learned to create audio and visual materials for print and broadcast media and to write news reports. The goal was to encourage them to write in their school magazine. We encourage them to write for the Olive Branch magazine21 that belongs to Seeds of Peace and to write their opinions about current events in the Seedsnet website.22 In the last eight years we produced a movie that was filmed by the children themselves. The film is called Peace of Mind and is 57 minutes long.23 During the making of the film Israeli and Palestinian children documented their reality, personal experiences, their family stories and their views of the conflict.

We have had activities during which the children created plays that were performed in schools in front of audiences that ranged from 7 to 12 year olds. The actors in the plays were Israeli and Palestinian children from Seeds of Peace. The message of the plays was that coexistence and mutual respect is possible and that there are ways other than those seen on TV. We held workshops for the Palestinians on the Palestinian side and for Israelis on the Israeli side. We performed ’Bring a Friend’ activities. We hold many activities. I have 7000 pictures of activities, and about 100 video tapes. All these pictures and videos show people, including children and parents. We have a kind of archive.

How did you come to adopt the way of Non-violence?

As a Palestinian I used to think that the only way to achieve our national ambitions-- independence and state--was through war and armed struggle. Because the Israelis used violent ways to create their state and realize their dreams, I thought that the only option was violence. That was how I thought in the beginning. Many people still believe in this idea. As time goes on one begins to realize that our human identity is wider and more important than our national identity. I realized that the sphere of our identity as Israelis and Palestinians is narrow, and if we confine our thinking to within this sphere, we will never reach the wider sphere- the global sphere of humans as humans. All around the world borders are being lifted. In the EU you can travel between many countries and you only have to wave your passport.24 The Europeans have left the narrow circle of their nationalist identity. They have realized that there are many interests that connect them that are stronger than the barriers of national identity. The English and French were bitter enemies for hundreds of years, so were the German and French.

The Europeans found that the greater interests are connected to the rest of humanity and based upon the human dimension. This openness in relations allows for economic and cultural sharing. There are many ways that aren’t harmful and are better than the way of war that was experienced by the Europeans before and after WWI and WWII. There are people who still act according to the way of war. America, for example, still uses the way of war and hasn’t learned the lessons from the wars of the past. There are many other states that still believe in this way. There are many nations that experienced war and millions of victims suffered; they were almost totally destroyed and still didn’t achieve the goals that were set at the beginning of the war, like Japan and Germany, for example. After the war these nations adopted a different, more civilized and human way. Through this way they achieved what they couldn’t achieve through war without victims and with a much lower financial cost. Why should we adopt a way that was tried by others and proven wrong? Israelis and Palestinians also tried this way and denounce it.

The time I spent in prison influenced my views. I suffered as a result of the conflict and my belief in the way of violence. This had a personal effect on me. Ten years of my life were spent in prison. Ten years is a long time. I also benefited personally from this experience. It changed my thinking by 180 degrees. During my time in prison I studied the experiences and history of different nations. As a result I realized that there are ways that suit us as Palestinians and also suit our human nature. Palestinians are an integral part of humanity in the world. Studying different human philosophies and the history of nations strengthened my belief that the best way for the Palestinian people or any other people is the way based on respect.

Even if the heart of the enemy is very dark, there is always a bright side to every people. It is hard to find this side, but not impossible. The difference between the difficult and the impossible is that the difficult can be achieved. Some claim that finding this bright side is difficult. Of course it is difficult, but it’s not impossible. My belief in this way strengthens every day. When I look at pictures of the children that take part in the Seeds of Peace activities I can’t tell an Israeli from a Palestinian or a Jordanian; they are all alike. When they are all dressed in a green uniform it is hard to differentiate between a Palestinian, an Israeli or an American. This is because they are all humans and share the same smile, hopes and optimism about a bright future. Why shouldn’t we give them the opportunity to build their own future? They should realize and determine their future according to what is suitable for them, not for others. This opportunity will be available for them only if we create a situation that allows them to realize their hopes and dreams. We should allow them to study. Every generation is unique. Every generation learns from the previous generations and adds to its experiences. This shows that human beings always learn, because there are always future generations that add to the experiences and the knowledge of the current generation.

What are the most significant difficulties or challenges you face?

If something is easy, you don’t enjoy it. If we perform our activities easily and without investing effort and they always run smoothly, we feel that we aren’t doing anything special. One of the positive sides of our work is that it is full of obstacles. Those who participate in a violent or armed struggle claim that their aim is to achieve victory. Victory means that there is a winning side and a losing side and winning is achieved at the expense of the suffering of others. The way of non-violence, based on building bridges of trust and allowing people to find their own solutions for the future, is full of hurdles and is criticized by many people. This is painful, but positive at the same time because you invest all your effort in proving to the critics that this work is for their benefit.

After my eight years of working in this field, many people, including close friends, stopped talking to me. They only say hello when we meet. This is because I work in the field of non-violence or “normalization,”25 as they call it. Our work is far from normalization because the situation is far from normal. If the situation were normal there would be no need for us to facilitate joint work because the people would do their own joint work. Because the situation isn’t normal we work in order to make the situation normal. Our goal is to return the situation to normality. Our goal is to reach a situation in which people live with honor and realize their dreams. My political views haven’t changed. I think that the Palestinians should have an independent state on 100% of the West Bank and that all the settlements should be evacuated and there should be a just solution for the issue of the refugees. My political thinking hasn’t changed, but I think that the way to achieve our goals is through understanding and dialogue with the other side. The other side should also realize its dreams. I don’t think that in order for me to have a good life they should be destroyed. If we both have good and enjoyable lives I will be even happier. I don’t see a problem in building good future relations with the Israelis.

What is the meaning of the word “normalization”, for you and for others?

The word was used just before Camp David,26 when Sadat visited Jerusalem and the Israeli Knesset.27 He visited as if the situation were absolutely normal six years after the 1973 War.28 The global alliances at the time were strange. There wasn’t only one superpower in the world; there was the Soviet Union in addition to the US. Sadat visited Israel in order to build a peace agreement. After Sadat had tried the way of war, he found that the only way to reach a solution was to speak directly to the Israelis. It was at that time that I started to understand what was going on in the region and it was the first time that I heard the word “normalization.” The word normalization had bad connotations and was used as a kind of curse word.

The nation that was seen as the heart of the Arab world, Egypt, pursued normalization and a separate peace agreement with Israel, which were viewed as shameful acts. There was a strong feeling that the Arab world was left without a heart. There was a mighty public campaign by the Arab countries against Egypt because it reached an agreement with Israel in Camp David, and the word “normalization” was born at that time. After Camp David everyone who had relations with Jews or Israelis was called a normalizer. The political meaning of the word normalization is having academic, cultural, social, agricultural or any kind of relations with Israelis. This is the meaning of normalization in the Arab media.

I think that normalization is dealing with the situation as normal while it isn’t normal. I think that if you deal with the situation as normal when it isn’t normal, you are a normalizer. In Seeds of Peace we deal with the situation as abnormal. During the last eight years many friends didn’t speak to me but over time they started to understand my way and some even asked if they could join in our work. Many parents, who strongly opposed our work, now ask for our help to include their children in our activities. I don’t want to mention names, but people who used to write to the media and criticize the program now, after six years of activities, support us. There is a famous journalist who said to me that he used to oppose our way, but now admits that we are people who work hard and are determined to perform our work and are very active. He asked if his daughter could participate in our activities. She later participated in one of our camps. There has been a massive increase in activities. This growth changed the views of many people who viewed the program in a negative way. Many people who are opposed to all the peace agreements say that they don’t agree with us and are opposed to our way but still respect us because we are doing something. Seeds of Peace’s positive reputation is a result of this huge increase in activities.

These activities strengthened the Palestinian youth’s opinions and turned them into ambassadors that represent Palestine in many arenas, such as Europe and America. The graduates of our activities are “aware” and represent Palestine in many places; many of them are in universities in the US. They are a voice for Palestine, and their principles come from studying the Palestinian issue. After they go through our program and participate in our activities they become interested in the Palestinian issue and look for information on a personal level. They participate in dialogue meetings with Israelis and research the Palestinian issue in order to hold up their end of the debate and to convince their counterparts that there is a basis for their views. An aware generation was born. The most important thing is that they are willing to speak and express themselves and also listen to others. This is a humane and positive side to the Palestinian people. The graduates of our activities had a major role in changing the opinions of those who looked upon the Palestinians as terrorists. People all over the world who have relations with the graduates and people who meet with graduates in the US for example have developed an objective view of the Palestinians. They began to realize that the Palestinian people are like any other people; they want to study and ensure education for the future generation.

What are the biggest misconceptions the two sides have about each other?

The biggest misunderstanding on the Palestinian side about the Israeli side is that the only way to deal with the Israelis is through violence, and that it is impossible for the Israelis to forgive the Palestinians and sign an agreement that ensures all the rights of the Palestinians. The same is true on the Israeli side. There is a wide conception among the Israelis that the Palestinians will never forgive the Israelis and will always want to kill or erase them whenever they have the opportunity. Many of them have this feeling. This shared misunderstanding is dangerous and makes building trust between the two sides very difficult. When the children participate in Seeds of Peace activities they realize that these ideas about the other side may change.

The Israelis are obsessive about their security, but it is possible to reach an agreement with them. The Israelis should realize that if the Palestinians are given their rights then relations and coexistence between the two states is possible. This idea is spreading, but in the last four years of the intifada29 the violent ideas have had a very negative effect on our programs and on the two societies. Many people have adopted violent and aggressive ideas and gotten involved in the circle of violence. The circle of violence had no aims and continued until the rise to power of Abu Mazen.30

Abu Mazen should be greatly respected for taking brave steps that are the most important steps taken in decades. These steps are organizing the security mechanisms and putting an end to the phenomenon of the armed groups. This phenomenon is harmful to the Palestinians. Abu Mazen was very brave and said this in Gaza and Rafah;31 this means he is a serious person who is faithful to his people. During the elections I was out of town, otherwise I would have voted for him. In our family three people voted for Abu Mazen, some for others and some cast a blank ballot, but the majority elected him. I am proud, on the domestic and personal level that we proved our democratic nature.

What is the biggest misconception the world has about the conflict?

I can’t tell you what the world thinks in such a short time, but due to my experiences and meetings with people from the US I have found that they have adopted a false way of dealing with the conflict and of making speeches about resolving it. I think the error is that they choose a side and support one side against the other which provokes continuation of the Palestinian violence. This is the biggest error the world commits toward the Arab-Israeli conflict. I think the world should encourage the Israelis and Palestinians to hold dialogue and return to the negotiating table. I think this would be a positive contribution to the conflict.

If the world supports the Palestinians they should try to convince them that the best way to break out of the cycle of violence that engulfs the region is to have dialogue with the Israeli side. They should encourage the two sides to cooperate. The two sides have suffered greatly in the past from others and at the present from each other. The majority of the world views this region as part of another planet. This is also a mistake. When they see news reports about the conflict they view us as two people who don’t want to learn from the mistakes of other countries or from their own mistakes. They view the conflict as an ongoing episode. The world isn’t interested in what is happening here, and those who are interested in what is happening here either support us or are against us, they don’t support peace, love or an agreement between the two sides.

What are you expectations for the next ten years?

There is a difference between my expectations and my hopes for the next ten years. My hopes and wishes for the next ten years are that there will be a confederate union between the Israeli and Palestinian state and possibly Jordan. I hope that the issue of the refugees is solved within this triple union. I hope the Israelis, Palestinians and Jordanians will be able to travel freely and securely within the federation. I hope the federation will be economically prosperous and open for Muslim, Jewish and Christian tourists from all over the world. I hope Seeds of Peace has a major role in realizing this goal or dream. This will be more significant for Seeds of Peace or any organization that works in this field than a million Nobel Peace Prizes because this is the real prize that is enjoyed by everyone.

What are your expectations given the present situation?

Given the present situation I think that in ten years there will be something along the lines of this union. I am a natural optimist. I am very optimistic.

What does the word peace mean for you?

Peace means relations between people that are based on love and mutual respect. Peace means that people can travel and sleep wherever they want without fear. Peace means that a child feels secure from the moment he is born and acquires an education and realizes his dreams. Peace means that everyone receives his rights as a human being and a citizen in his country, and no one strips him of these rights. Peace means everyone has opportunities in life. Peace means that people don’t look upon one another with jealousy, but with brotherhood and love. Peace means a person can work and provide food for his children. Peace means all homes are open for everyone. I am describing peace as a person who isn’t familiar with it. Peace hasn’t reached us yet, but I hope we will reach it. The people that will enjoy peace the most are those who haven’t experienced it. Those who have experienced it don’t enjoy it. I hope every child who is born in the future experiences peace from the day he is born, and the elderly live long enough to experience a small part of it.

What must happen in order for us to reach that level of peace?

The first thing that is required is willingness to forego big dreams for the benefit of a larger dream. The dreams that need to be given up concern a certain people, but the large dream concerns all the people and nations. The realization of this dream requires everyone to be willing to forgive and have trust in others. Forgiveness directly builds trust between people. Interaction between people that is based on respect creates trust. Hope is a very important thing. The loss of hope is very hard. Each side should have hopes about the other side. We should have hope for ourselves and also for the other side because we aren’t alone. We should be willing to co-exist with the other side in the future. We should be willing to rebuild the region in the future in order for everyone to live in it. The most important thing is abandoning violence. It requires that the people act according to logic, as Abu Mazen does. If the people understand Abu Mazen’s message, then the long road to peace will be shortened. If an Israeli leader with the same level of humane thinking steps up, then the road towards peace will be shortened further.

Do you think fear plays a role in the conflict?

Fear does have a role in the conflict. Fear is a result of the lack of trust and the experiences of the past. The experiences of the past created among many people a total lack of trust in the other side. This creates fear. The uncertainty about the future also creates fear. Fear is present and plays a role in the conflict. Trust is a cure for fear. If one side forgives the other side, the other side will also forgive. There is always a light on the other side, and we should look for this light on the Israeli side and on the Palestinian side. This light, which is the good, should prevail. If this light spreads, it will reach the hearts of everyone and will force out the fear.

What role does religion play in the conflict?

If religion is used in a wrong way and as a means of revenge, then any religion has a negative role. It is the duty of the leaders of the three religions to focus on the humane and forgiving aspects of their religions toward the other religions.

Have you met people that you wouldn’t have met if not for your work, or visited places during your work you wouldn’t have visited otherwise?

Of course. There are many people I wouldn’t have met if I didn’t work in this field. Unfortunately, because of my work I have met many people. I say unfortunately because the reason I met with these people is my work with Seeds of Peace, and not everyone is connected to Seeds of Peace and has the opportunity to meet these people. If everyone had connections with associations that hold joint activities between the people of the region and the opportunity to participate in the activities of Seeds of Peace then they would have the opportunity to meet these people.

I was fortunate to meet many people, and discover their human sides. I was inside many Israeli homes and became familiar with the Israelis in their homes. I visited Israeli homes from Nahariya32 to Ashkelon33 to Eilat34 and also in kibbutzim.35 I witnessed their behavior and became familiar not only with their social customs but also with the different customs of the western and eastern Jews36 and also with the Jewish religion. I was also fortunate to become familiar with my Palestinian society through this work. I visited many Palestinian homes in Tulkarm,37 Gaza,38 Jenin,39 Nablus,40 Jerusalem and the refugee camps. If I didn’t work in this field I wouldn’t have visited them and become so familiar with their behavior, suffering, thinking and dreams.

I also met many families in Jordan, Egypt, Cyprus and Bosnia and Herzegovina. This is the most important thing.41 If I didn’t work in this field I wouldn’t have discovered the common denominator of the domestic behavior of all these families, and wouldn’t have discovered that the behavior of all these families is similar. I found that the ethical and social sides and the behavior inside the homes are similar to a large extent. We visited families in Bosnia and Herzegovina, Serbia, Macedonia, Croatia, Cyprus, Jordan, Israel, Palestine, America and other countries and found that all the families are alike. The fathers look upon their children in the same way and dream about playing and going out together and sending them to university. The American, Palestinian, European and Israeli families talk about health issues in the same way. I discovered all this through personal experience. This deepens my views.

What are the most important lessons you have learned through your work?

The most important lesson I have learned from this work is that there are powerful energies hidden inside 15 or 16 year old youth. A large part of this energy is wasted. The most important lesson I learned is how to use this energy in a positive way. The Israeli and Palestinian societies are young societies and the young people’s energies are wasted. They can be used in order to economically develop and elevate this region in the future.

Is there anything you want to add?

I want to talk about what I want the Palestinian people to be in the future. I would like our people to enrich global civilization by contributing scientists and thinkers. I would like the Palestinian people to have all educational institutions such as proper kindergartens, schools and universities. I would like all these educational levels to be available to everyone. I would also like health institutions to be available in the form of modern hospitals. I would like the streets to be taken care of and people to respect law and order. I would like mutual respect between people to be on the highest level. I would also like the Palestinians to respect other people as they respect each other.

The Palestinians suffer from very hard conditions and still produce scientists and thinkers; therefore I think we will produce even more scientists and thinkers if the situation improves. I hope the world provides our people with the opportunity to produce these thinkers and provide fertile soil for the growth of the young scientific seeds, the Palestinian youth. The whole world will benefit from this. Even if the world has many scientists from other nations, it is losing an important sector due to the conflict--that is the Palestinian people or any other people who are involved in a conflict. The Israeli side can also produce people who reflect the human sides of Israeli society. Peace and security in this region is a global interest.

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