Itamar ShapiraCombatants for Peace |
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“ Most people who come speak Hebrew but everything is translated into Hebrew and Arabic. We have translators; there were a few meetings with professional translators but mostly there are people among us who translate, Israeli guys who understand Arabic or Arab guys who speak Hebrew. Everything is translated into both languages. Language is a major obstacle to the flow of things, for decision-making. It will take a long time, but gradually we will all speak Arabic and Hebrew. ” [Source in Complete Interview]
Language and Security and Suicide Bombing and Nonviolence:
“ ...We view the Palestinians and ourselves as having fought for useless things. We struggle for security but simultaneously prevent it; they are struggling for a state but the suicide attacks prevent that; we are in transition to a state of refraining from violence. We don’t use the term terrorist in our group anymore; we talk about people who took part in the violent struggle. ” [Source in Complete Interview]
Identity and Israeli/Palestinian Power Dynamics:
“ There is a certain imbalance in the meetings; at first it seemed the Israelis came with a more apologetic approach -- allegedly -- because the Palestinians in our organization are still in the middle of a struggle, not a violent one, but nevertheless a struggle. That evened out gradually when we understood that it is also important for us to emphasize our own national identity as Israelis. These aren’t two societies seeking a solution with “no countries – no opposition” as its slogan. We emphasize each side’s national identity; coming from this recognition of national identity we want to end the occupation and the violence. ” [Source in Complete Interview]
Women in Society and Israeli Military Service:
“ Clearly it’s because a person fought, sacrificed their best years, some people became officers, some are pilots, fighters in elite units, all sorts of quality units. In Israel it is a well known fact that this entitles you to respect and high positions; some people move up and they are the people who are running the country. Clearly the army is central in Israel, and whoever was a combat soldier allegedly has more to say about security and about the conflict. I think this perception is shared more or a less in both societies, which are aggressive. We haven’t got a female Minister of Defense, or someone who hasn’t serve in the military. ” [Source in Complete Interview]
Personal Story and Occupation and Security:
“ I felt like I was risking the state’s security by entering villages very simply because every time we went in we encountered someone who didn’t quite want us there who would shoot; people were killed, and then there was revenge taken, and then a suicide bombing in another place…20 more dead, and we would set out to catch another one. We saw the names; we were a small unit, so we knew whom we were off to arrest and what they had done. I kept track of all the people we went after in my head and every one of them was connected to someone killed in the previous round. That alarmed me. I used to feel pretty righteous in my own way, I thought that I was there to do police work and catch someone who killed a lot of people, arrest them, and if a person shot at me because they didn’t want to be arrested then that was their problem. ” [Source in Complete Interview]
“ I had never heard about Qibya or about other villages where Israel killed many people; I had never known about the Nakba. I never knew that there used to be Arabs here but that now most of them are gone, but I never considered that they once lived where Tel Aviv University now stands or where my community is or where another person’s town is. It wasn’t real. Even if I did know all this, then I thought the Arab villages had been there but had been “abandonded”--or something like that. I wasn’t aware of the intensity of the pain the other side bears. You can say, “But they use terrorism” but if you don’t understand the pain you obviously won’t understand things that evolved from it; it’s like on our side. If you don’t understand there was a holocaust and that people always suffered from pogroms and persecution, you won’t understand why Israel is here or why we insist on being here. ” [Source in Complete Interview]
Occupation and Israeli Military Service:
“ Smiling while you’re on guard, or what is called the “enlightened occupation”, doesn’t help anyone forget they’re under occupation. Qalandia checkpoint is one example: now it’s been turned into a civilized border crossing with automatic gates and glass booths and people pass in a respectable manner. But if a person cannot cross with his daughter or take his pregnant wife to the hospital, it won’t help if a soldier smiles at him while saying, “You may wait for 5 or 6 hours please”. ” [Source in Complete Interview]
Family and Occupation and Israeli Military Service:
“ Parents usually say, "Of course not. My sweet Yoram would never do such a thing." I know quite a few parents like that and I am familiar with what their sons did. It's true, their son would never do such a thing because at home he's a good boy and a very nice guy, but if he's in control, tired and people are pissing him off, he changes a little. He doesn't even have to be really annoyed for the situation to trigger him to contribute to a continuous sense of humiliation: though he himself serves in the Territories for only two years, later sweet Yoavi replaces him, and for the past 40 years an entire population has been humiliated, therefore Palestinians end up involved in the struggle. ” [Source in Complete Interview]
Personal Story and Israeli Military Service:
“ I’ve also reached a level where I could think over how angry I once got at a group of taxi drivers because they indirectly served people who avoided the curfew -- the workers who left Jericho to go to work. The taxi drivers waited for them to return and that really irritated me; it was after a night without any sleep… I ordered them to leave and they didn’t want to. They gave me the finger; in the end I shot tear gas at them. I asked for permission and a sleepy clerk gave me the okay, so I shot tear gas. They ran away, came back, and laughed. It really annoyed me; how dare they laugh at me? ” [Source in Complete Interview]
Obstacles and Challenges and Community Responses to Peace Work:
“ Many people view my work as “talking to the enemy” or think I hate the Israeli people or that I am a traitor; every person has their own views. At first it bothered me more and I felt as though I was no longer considered the salt of the earth. I used to be in a social position that always landed me jobs. Every time you apply for a job or interview with a company and tell that you were a brave soldier, it’s taken into consideration because it has some glory or status in Israeli society. That’s something you give up because you aren’t in the consensus anymore; people view me as part of the radical Left. ” [Source in Complete Interview]
Obstacles and Challenges and Political Peace Processes/Political Leadership:
“ Supporters of the Labor party want to end the occupation and the conflict but they claim that the moment we put down our arms they will shoot at us, and cite Oslo as an example of this. The other side also says that too -- if we stop terrorism they will forget because they don’t care that people are living this way. If we stop using terrorism it won’t sink in, they won’t comprehend that something is wrong, that people are being oppressed and it will take hundreds of years to gain independence. Both sides are right. This is how it is in most places. The goal is to put an end to this cycle. ” [Source in Complete Interview]
Identity and Education and Perceptions of the Other and Israeli Military Service:
“ When an Israeli talks to Palestinians he can talk about his side and show his perspective, that he, the Israeli, was also once a fighter, “like you”, that’s what he will tell the people he’s talking to. If I talk to Israelis or at an Israeli school, I will be addressing children who want to be heroes and serve in elite units. Maybe our speaker served in an elite unit and can say, “I’m not sure that you will be such a hero there. ” A kid can listen to him, or to me because I’m not his mother… I’m allegedly a macho male that represents the consensus. This enables us to tap into the feeling of “I want to be just like him”. This is a person that a kid can listen to. Because the Israeli and Palestinian speakers come together, kids will also be able to listen to the enemy, see him -- see this dangerous and horrible person that is usually crucified by Israeli society. ” [Source in Complete Interview]
Conceptions of Peace and Separation Barrier:
“ I can’t imagine peace here in the near future. I hope that it will happen because without hope there is no reason to work for peace, but I don’t expect my generation to witness us living together, doing business with each other, blossoming relations. I think there needs to be separation; I think that a separation barrier is a good idea in theory -- not its current contour obviously, the way it closes off tiny ghettos -- but a fence that high, of similar intimidating proportions on the 1967 borders; that would be fine. ” [Source in Complete Interview]
Economic/Environmental Resources and International Involvement:
“ Because international audiences’ opinion potentially have financial importance, I think it’s important to convey the message to the world that this war can come to an end, that it isn’t a war centered on uncompromising religions that want to kill everyone, a holy war. That’s a common perception in Europe, as well as in Bush’s head. I also want to say that this has an end and that must begin with the strong side. If I could set European foreign policy, I would decide to boycott Israel or threaten to boycott Israel until it withdraws from the Territories. ” [Source in Complete Interview]
Family and Violence and Israeli Military Service:
“ Shovrim Shtika’s central concept is that there is a conspiracy of silence inside Israeli society that initially starts between a soldier and his family. When a soldier is on leave, he never talks about exactly what he’s doing and how many people he beat up or if he killed anybody, or how many people or their identity, or how many houses he blasted. These issues are kept between a soldier and his friends; there is also a more profound conspiracy of silence within a soldier himself in that he doesn’t consider his own actions. People reach different states of aggression as a result of being in control, yet they are tired and frustrated and just kids. Society is silent about what appears in the papers, about the little that is published. There are other pacts of silence, but this is the main one we want to call attention to and get out in the open. ” [Source in Complete Interview]
“ Normalization means that there needs to be a struggle against the occupation, but that it’s possible to maintain relations with Israel in other areas, work and education for example, in order to keep on living. In Palestinian society, [the stigma of normalization] is similar to when our side accuses us of "surrendering to terrorism," but it means cooperating with the Israelis and preventing the end of the occupation, and so they are perceived as traitors. ” [Source in Complete Interview]
“ Continuing the occupation ultimately means the [Palestinian] struggle will continue too. It is inconceivable that the struggle will end while there is still occupation, and the occupation cannot exist without injustice; because the Israeli army is an army, it knows how to kill. ” [Source in Complete Interview]
Community Responses to Peace Work and Reconcilation:
“ We come to talk to people in the name of militancy because it grabs people’s attention and they feel it’s legitimate for us to be talking about reconciliation. ” [Source in Complete Interview]
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